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Carnal Codex

Discussion in 'General Carnal Souls Discussion' started by Benji, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. Farlun

    Farlun Well-Known Member Member

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    Of course this stuff is absolutely unpractical. But it's fantasy, you have living skeletons throwing fireballs at dragons while medieval peasants in peril write notes about their despair to the local priest who calls down the wrath of the god of justice at the goblins and brigands who harassed them. Realism really ain't something to look for.

    If I find anything really jarring is how 95% of fantasy, even "realistic" fantasy, gets weapons completely wrong and, for example, has sword which should rather fall apart than hurt anyone. But I don't mind that because it's FANTASY!, so why should I be picky about it?

    If we're realistic, let's be realistic and let's do medieval, if not, then why bother with functionality if the very idea of the setting is dysfunctional from the get-go?
     
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  2. Benji

    Benji Director Staff Artist Writer

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    Well, at least for Luud, I imagined that spells like Oakskin and Steelskin and other such defensive spells would change the game somewhat. I was thinking of restricting those spells to only certain armour configurations, actually requiring an amount of exposed skin for them to work. Getting into a suit of armour is a chore that usually requires help, but for bandits and other types that require some agility, it'd be simpler to learn some spells (if one can) and keep your armour both light and in some cases as distracting as possible.

    Plus, for those wondering, there is a little backstory behind why the guards of Sunrest are dressed that way. I'll make a note to remember it for the Sunrest entry in the Codex.
     
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  3. Farlun

    Farlun Well-Known Member Member

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    Maybe protective jewelry or amulets enchanted with shielding spells? No one has to learn anything and it would be pretty useful for someone prepared to both fight and seduce.
     
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  4. Akhter13

    Akhter13 Active Member Member

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    There are plenty of RL examples of warriors in the buff such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaesatae
    entire empires fought bare chested particularly in tropical regions [heat exhaustion can cause casualties faster than the enemy]
    and those guys don't get any protection from their Gods/rituals or magic tats

    Armour handicaps skirmishers, slowing them [preventing escape] impeding their dodging incoming projectiles [open formation and use of cover reduce ranged weapon efficiency massively]
     
  5. Godwin

    Godwin Active Member Member

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    I don't have anything against bare chested dudes, or sexualized armor in general.

    I guess the bottom line is I just think it looks silly. Can't really take them seriously wearing that. Maybe that's the point though? I dunno. I do like the female variant, however. And the fully bare male torso. The half and half just doesn't jive with me.
     
  6. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    "Every bandit know some magic" method seems to me as devaluing magic gift and skill. Also, if you have such skill - you probably have better ways to earn money than to jump some travellers of unknown level of power.
    And we get Skyrim level of silliness: bandits living in dank caves but owning stuff that can be sold for enough gold for all of them to retire.

    I offer another way. Every bandit gang, that does not get killed off early, eventually recruit some kind of alchemist with enough skill to brew simple (relatively weak and with really short duration) potions of defence from whatever reagents one can gather around.

    That is also because metallurgy in those empires sucked. Once Roman Empire got enough metal arms and armour and proper tactic to use those - it steamrolled all over those "entire empires" (yes, I am looking at you, Egypt).
    Also, those empires had another resource - tons and tons of slaves and peasants, that they could throw into meat-grinder while those who matter were as far away from battlefield as they were allowed to be. Wasting precious iron on those lowlifes would have been a waste.
    Skirmish tactic works, because those skirmishers have position to fall back to. And this position is usually defended by some heavy infantry in actual armour.
    Have you ever tried to dodge a projectile? Have you ever tried to dodge a volley of projectiles? Have you ever tried to do so in the middle of combat? If your problem is projectile - your solution is not a Hollywood choreography. Your solution is a shield.

    All in all lack of proper armour is a not choice out of efficiency, but a consequence of inability to provide said armour.

    By the way, sure, but why stop at spells? How about transformatives? Grow a really thick skin. Or transform your fur to contain more metal (but do not hope to win any swimming races after that). Such rudimentary transformations should be well within skills of a half-decent alchemist. If they are known wide enough - maybe such recipes can be created even by enterprising cook. They may be somewhat unsightly, but come on, you are a bandit, you are not going to win any beauty contests anytime soon.

    Some gangs may even take pride in their specific vectors of transformation with higher ranking members getting further transformations.
     
  7. monhold

    monhold New Member Member

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    So for example X bandit gang uses wolf TFs, with recruits having atleast 1 wolf TF (ears/tail) whilst the leader is a complete wolf-morph?
     
  8. Akhter13

    Akhter13 Active Member Member

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    From the top
    Don't look at Egypt o_O The Ptolemaic Empire was a successor state using classic Macedonian tactics i.e. fix with phalanx then flank with Heavy Cav wedges for rear charge [all cuirass equipped]. No what did for the Ptolemaic dynasty was Roman's inability to deal with unarmored fast moving opponents. Rome needed a secure source of grain and fought the Pontic empire for the Crimea & southern Ukraine. Having captured the bread basket they were unable to deal with raiding steppe horse archers, so they turned their eyes to the Nile.
    Anyhow I said Tropical empires: southern India [excellent metallurgists] and South East Asia.

    No skirmish tactics work if you are the fastest thing on the field and there is nothing to get trapped against [See Golden Hoard]. the last thing you want is something as un-maneuverable as HI they will be caught and killed.
    many campaigns have been won by not allowing your enemy have a decisive battle {See Fabian as you like Romans}

    Yes! of course I was a different racial group than the one I grew up in. I have been stoned and occasionally shot at with catapults, air rifles and once a crossbow. Believe me you quickly learn how to dodge: thrown objects past 20 feet you dodge the object, everything else you watch for the preparatory action and then distance yourself from the aim point [left right or drop]
    Volley fire is for unit vs unit you aim at an area not a guy loose formation fast moving guys just flee the likely aim point, yes to odd one will be unlucky but losses will be much lower than if it hit close formation units. It is the standard way to counter a missile superior foe.
    Shield {See Marius as you like Romans, he specifically forbade the issuing of shields to certain light troops}

    Sir you have brought up personal experience, I am looking at my bod and here are a list of injuries I have pick up in "combat" as you term it.
    Mild damage to the language center of the brain, fractured skull, fractured jaw, 3 missing teeth, impaired sight one eye as result of smashed orbital bone, fused ribs from multiple fractures, fractured forearm, displaced bones in wrist, both pinkies stick out weirdly [a guy tortured me by dislocating my fingers I beat him shitless with the mangled stumps, seemed fair] and scars from a knife and steel bars. I have left some out.
    Sources include a civil war [The Troubles], officer training, doing "Door" and my present job as a detective.
    So my question is this "Just how often have you shat your own blood?"
     
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  9. Farlun

    Farlun Well-Known Member Member

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    You don't know how common magic is in the setting. It might be possible that simple spells and the knowledge to use them is common between the people of Luud.

    But even in Skyrim cheap amulets were, well, cheap. It doesn't have to be gold or anything, just simple, even tribal stuff that can be enchanted with simple spells. I doubt you'd sell a self-made wooden necklace for a ton of gold. If simple magic is common, then even protective enchantements wouldn't make it valuable (unless they were extremely powerful, but that's premium gear area).

    @Akhter13: Holy cow, that's... A lot of experience. o_O
     
  10. Akhter13

    Akhter13 Active Member Member

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    What can I say I'm an idiot.
    Best summed up by an Old Coach of mine when he recommended me to Ireland's American football squad.
    I asked him why? He said
    "You'll put your head places a sane man wouldn't put a stick!"

    For the record 1 season LT then someone put my foot behind my head.
     
  11. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    I were thinking more along the lines of purely combat-oriented transformations, like you start with though skin and progress all the way to skin that is stone-like. But yes, predator-keyed transformations are also possible, though resulting wolf-morph would be different from Canen.


    And how many of those can you equip in Egypt, considering small amount of available iron?
    They were unwilling to commit to it. Too much investment, too little return. Soil is poor, local populace is scarce and uncooperative and there were no known sources of anything of value there.
    Those are densely populated areas, they have more people than metal, so it makes sense to spend the former and not the latter. Can you find any depictions of nobles going into battle without proper armour?
    I would argue with you here, but unless mounts will be introduced in the game as part of battle mechanic - cavalry warfare tactics are beside the point.
    Also beside the point. In this game we do not have ability to escape, so every battle is a decisive battle.
    Sure, of course, assuming that
    1) You know, that you are being shot.
    2) You can see the shooter and his projectiles.
    3) Shooter cannot aim and shoot faster than you can dodge.
    4) There are no other shooter that can shoot you before you regain your balance.
    5) You have more stamina for dodging than shooter have distance and ammo to keep shooting at you.
    6) There are enough space around you for dodging.
    That's a lot of assumptions, isn't it?
    You see: there are a lot of difference between those, who shoot simply to hit you, and those, who deliberately try to kill you.
    But that's the point: you do not have affordable losses if you do not have an army. And aforementioned heroes and our PC tend to be lacking in army department. So no, they cannot afford to dodge some arrows and to be hit by some. If they do not have armour - they have to dodge every single projectile fired towards them. A lofty aspiration, indeed.
    Roman army runs on Roman budget. And those light troops were auxiliaries, not Roman citizens, so there were no point to care about their long-term survivability too much.
    So it seems that all this "not having a proper armour in situations involving physical violence" did not exactly work out well for you, hmm?
    And country, in which I was born, does not even exist anymore. But really, should we involve global politics here? =)
    A fair question. Or not? I am not sure, what does pass for "fair question" in this day and age?
    Nevertheless, the answer is "never". I have studied martial arts exactly to prevent this sort of thing, along with all other items from your list.


    It may be, but then we have classic "arms and armour race" issue. If magic is common - counter-magic should be equally common. If every bandit that crosses your path have some kind of defensive enchantment - it is just common sense to bring along with you some spells of "Dispel magic". And this just returns us to the beginning: bandits with no effective defence.
    But then we have other problem. If you have magic - you are going to have means to detect magic. And permanent magical items are going to be dead giveaway for bandits' locations.
     
  12. Benji

    Benji Director Staff Artist Writer

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    Getting a touch off-topic here and it reads like a pissing contest. Try to reel it back, guys.

    Added some new stuff today for Sunrest, a little history on the city guard/watch, and some ideas for new characters therein. Find them at the bottom of the doc.
     
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  13. Godwin

    Godwin Active Member Member

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    Holy shit, team Ford all the way. That sounds like one crack team of hopeless misfits just waiting to bust a case wide open. Locke may have his Sheerluck (that whole passage was amazing to read by the way), but they have good old fashion detective work. Bring it on you lucky bastard.

    Also, I will snuggle Rose.

    I'm liking all the new variations of the uniforms, especially those tall ass collars on the chest pieces. I think they're all improvements on the design. I don't know if you'll get the whole parts system to pan out but it certainly sounds cool. I think I'd strive for armor cohesion myself, looking good is half the battle after all, but mixing and matching would be neat.

    Sunrest's dubious past is interesting and well written. Cool to see it wasn't all smooth sailing in the land of men, but equally cool to see most of the worst has already passed. The time of progress is now!
     
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  14. Ecroose

    Ecroose Member Member

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    im already planning on how i can work around their weakneses, and see if i can instead use them as a tool in my thievery (such as purposely leving a clue, have them accidently leave a door open, use them to distract Sheerluck or throuw him off my trail.) Im ssuming these guys are famous, so stuff such as their bios is common knowledge in the seedier parts of the cities. more than likely, we wont get along
     
  15. CascaOzy

    CascaOzy New Member Member

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    Finally took time to read the codex and it has rekindled my ebullient enthusiasm for this project. The setting is so fascinating and the story hooks it litters around are so so SO promising.
     
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  16. Farlun

    Farlun Well-Known Member Member

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    Oh, I loved the stuff about the guards, really. I laughed out loud about impaling people with your sight. Can't wait for my female PC to seduce that mare, by the way...

    About the armors: I think that doing every single part solo would greatly overcomplicate the system, and might bury you with a ton of design and programming work that won't really pay off.

    I think it would be better to have additional variants of the same armor with identical name and overall quality, but minor stat and move variations. Say: Sunrest Guard Uniform (Exposed), Uniform (Partialy exposed), Uniform (Covered), with each variant having slightly different stats (Say: Exposed has lower defence rating, but grants you seducing moves). Still, all of those armors would be relatively simillar in quality and defence, allbeit with some minor differences.

    Eventualy, you could have (and I think this would be the best of both worlds) seperate attire and underwear. You would then have armors exposing certain parts (crotch, breasts), and this would look and be described different based on wether or not you wear underwear and what kind of it.

    This way you could have an exposing armor that would no longer be exposing if you'd have underwear on. Hell, for such armors you could include different kinds of underwear: metal-reinforced bras for extra protection, or extra sexy ones for seduction.

    I think this is a better option than having every single piece of armor seperate and having to track every single variable. Thus, out of all the armor variations, you would have only two: The exposed one and the concealed one (say, the one with the tall collar on a chest piece). The exposed one would grant you moves depending on wether or not you wear a bra, pants and a corset. The concealed one would get extra protection but you could expose only the belly and the crotch (Thus preventing moves that "require" the use of the breasts). Still, you could leave one part "strategicaly" exposed in order to use a minor seducing move should you want or need to do so.

    At least, that's the way I'd do it if I would be designing this :p

    I mean, this system allows you to implement battle bras and corsets into the game, what's not to like? :p

    On a side note, me and my GF agree: The high-collar armor with the exposed crotch looks hot.
     
  17. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    I disagree.
    Firstly, it was already done in Morrowind and paid off. And they had to deal with all graphical assets. In abstract, text form everything is vastly simpler.
    Secondly, from programming standpoint, there is not so much difference between having four equipment slots and having two dozens of them.
    Also, I'd really like some gear to be allowed/locked depending on current transformation of respective bodypart. For example, consider tails: some poor creatures do not have them at all or have too short ones - so no tail armour for them; others have only thin, weak tails, like Canen and Felen - so no heavy tail armour for them. And now consider thick muscular tail of a higher caste Repten - now this is something that can use heavy armour and even weaponry (like armour spikes).
    Blisters. In places where you really would not like to have blisters.

    Also, if there is going to be revealing armour - I think it should be highly susceptible to piercing (and extremely susceptible to armour-piercing) attacks. If guards are equipped like this - for all criminal world there is no shot like cheap shot =)
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  18. Adhemar

    Adhemar New Member Member

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    So no bear-people?
     
  19. Farlun

    Farlun Well-Known Member Member

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    Not really.

    In Morrowind all they needed to keep track of was the item's in-game 3D asset and stats (including armor type and skill perks). There was no other use for armors other than visuals, the stat boosts and its inventory placement.

    In CS, you'd have to keep track of: Visual model (if implemented), stats, basic description (name) and extra words that can be used to describe the item, the overall attire description (the armor part descriptions would need to be different so that the full character description wouldn't get messy with, for example, too many repetitions or dry tongue), the overall attire classification, constantly check which body parts are exposed to that you can calculate which moves are available depending on the exposed parts, calculate, based on the armor elements, which special moves are available. And let's not even mention the sex scenes where the game would need to check what have you on yourself, how to describe it, how to describe the armor/attire being taken off (this has to be generated unless you want the writers to keep track of every single armor piece in-game and change every single sex scene manualy depending on what the player is wearing, including all possible combinations).

    Oh, and Morrowind was made by experienced studio with dozens of people, and not just two guys.

    Don't even get me started in describing what can be bugged here, where, how, why, and how often. Implementing would be, I guess, at least a few weeks including all the coding and testing and bugfixing (because I'm quite certain the system wouldn't work as intended on day one).

    I really doubt it would be worth it for such a minor feature.

    Still, Benji did pick a much better solution (check the Patreon) with modifiable armors. I think it will save a lot of work and give an equally good result!

    Not really, see above. The more elements you have, the more complex the code becomes as long as you need to categorise them and have calculate stuff depending on their combinations. Besides, programming aside, this is a nightmare from a designer's and writer's perspective.

    Again, good luck debugging that.

    I fully support custom, race-specific armors or armor variations.

    Hmm. This makes sense.

    Seduction-specialist guards that carry little armor and a huge shield. Collapsable, so that you won't have it coming in the way of striking sexy poses.

    So you have guards walking in pairs, the slutty one and the armored one. Or threes, one slutty, one armored and one half-exposed, half-armored (DPS :p ).

    Bear in mind the Codex is WIP and not final!

    I'd gladly see some fuckable, masculine, gay ursa shaman or something like that. I can only hope we will see the bearer of good news on this one!*

    *Oh my gods that was so dry... Please, kill me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
  20. Akhter13

    Akhter13 Active Member Member

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