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Feature/Kink Suggestions!

Discussion in 'General Carnal Souls Discussion' started by Lusetifan, Apr 8, 2016.

  1. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    The difference between "game that includes sex" and "porn" is essentially the same as between "game that includes shooting" and "target range". And if masturbating is the main activity - there is no need for game. You can just go to (massively NSFW) e621.net, for example.

    The main activity of game is playing, not something else.

    It is not about "sexy stuff suffering in service of the RPG stuff". It is about sexy stuff suffering from being nonsensical and being an end in itself. Some may find "revealing" armour sexy. I find it disgustingly stupid. And for me "stupid stuff" is dominantly antagonistic to "sexy stuff" (as in "something that is stupid cannot be sexy; no exceptions").

    And there even is no good in-world reason for existence of such things. Revealing garments belong to brothel, not to street, dungeon, wilderness or battlefield. But in brothel - sure, whatever floats your boat.
     
  2. Patrick R. Key

    Patrick R. Key Active Member Member

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    Considering that sex appeal can be used as a weapon in world, revealing garments do belong on the battlefield.
     
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  3. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    Tell me then, how appealing would those revealed parts look, once they are slashed, pierced, crushed, burnt, liquefied by acid and frostbitten.
     
  4. Patrick R. Key

    Patrick R. Key Active Member Member

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    10/10
     
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  5. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    And how many would enjoy their revealed parts being slashed, pierced, crushed, burnt, liquefied by acid and frostbitten?
     
  6. Ecroose

    Ecroose Member Member

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    Probably as high as their masochism score is.
    =D
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
  7. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    Masochism is about sensing pain, not about bodily harm. Self-mutilation is about bodily harm. But neither of them is about being killed due to poor choice of garments.
     
  8. Ecroose

    Ecroose Member Member

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    mmm,than just do the fantasy compromise. Despite appearing revealing, they're protected by magic shields woven into the material. You get protection and realism, everyone else get sexy clothes. Oh, and before you ask "How are they woven in, that doesn't make realistic sense" or whatever your next complaint it, the answer is enchanted thread.

    JUST thought on how to implement this. I dunno how lore-friendly it'll be since we have no idea, but what if there was a char that was son/daughter to a powerful {insert magic title here}, and instead of following in their family footsteps, they run away to the city and make clothes. Sure, they may not be revealing clothes right off the bat, but there's no reason why we can't make a request for them from said magical weaver. Right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
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  9. BlakLite

    BlakLite Member Member

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    Okay, that last post of mine (the Spongebob meme that I've just deleted) was unnecessary and childish. Now that I've gotten time to think about what to say, please allow me to try and resolve this argument over logic and mechanics. No one in this argument is wrong, but not one of us is entirely right, either. Adherence to practical, real-world logic (or the lack thereof) varies from one game to another, but whether the effect on the player's experience is positive or negative depends on context and implementation.

    Video games are full of instances whereby deliberately forgoing logic in service of mechanics does more good than harm. For example, in the new DOOM, the chainsaw is an exceedingly powerful weapon that can kill most enemy types in one hit. Furthermore, any enemy killed in this manner releases a huge shower of ammunition (excluding gasoline and BFG ammo) upon death. However, doing so also drains the player's very small supply of gasoline, with larger enemies requiring a larger expenditure on each kill. Of course, none of this makes any logical sense whatsoever, but from a mechanical standpoint, it enhances the player's experience. Even though searching for ammo and managing ammo reserves is integral to the play experience of DOOM, there will sometimes be instances in which the player runs low in the middle of an intense fight. Rather than forcing the player to try and make do without sufficient means of self-defense, the chainsaw provides a last resort to get back into the joy of combat.

    Of course, none of this is to say that an illogical contrivance can't work to a game's detriment. While the illogical nature of the example above is apparent, so are its benefits, thereby dodging the bullet of broken immersion. Problems arise when a disregard for logic fails to incur any meaningful benefit to the player. Old-school point-and-click adventure games are notorious for having this problem. How was I supposed to figure out that the correct use for the carrot cake given to me by the prisoner was to use the "open" verb on it and find a file hidden inside it? My character just spent the last twenty minutes soaking up bullets like a tank; how is he suddenly able to die from just one? Moments like these make the game world less believable while giving the player no reason to overlook them.

    Some may not agree with me on this next point, but I daresay that some games suffer by refusing to take liberties with their logic. I might get flak for this, but I'm going to pick on GTA IV for this one. Personally, I absolutely hated that game's controls. Specifically, I hated how the game prioritized realistic animations over responsiveness and fluidity. Almost every one of Niko's in-game actions would lock me into an animation that I was forced to wait out before my inputs would no longer be ignored. The result was an experience that constantly reminded me that I was holding a controller, struggling to make the on-screen avatar do what I wanted. You've been knocked down and want to get out of the way of incoming bullets? You'll first need to wait for Niko to be sufficiently knocked down and then slowly push himself to his feet. You want to get into that car? Just press the button and wait a few seconds, Niko needs to make tiny figure-eights while he remembers how car doors work. Trying to walk through a door? Not if Niko's turning radius has anything to say about it!

    In conclusion, let's stop arguing about how logical or illogical someone's idea is. Nothing said on this forum is predetermined to make Carnal Souls better or worse. We can still discuss it, but can we please try to at least be more pragmatic about it? Try to consider that one person's bugbear is another person's insignificant nitpick? See things from their perspective and restraining our tone before lobbing counterpoints?
     
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  10. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    Well, if you are relying on enchanted thread for defence - you would want more of it on you, not less. And there is always a weapon-armour balance: if there is defence - there will be offensive countermeasure to it. So, I can imagine nobles using enchanted lingerie to avoid being stabbed in the middle of a party, all while not ruining their court fashion, but common people (too expensive) and practical adventurers (need more defence) would not have much use for such extravagance.
    Well now, this is an interesting idea. How about this: she (suppose this character is female) is a descendant of family of well-established mages. She runs away with adventuring party (so that said party can thwart attempts from her family to return her), do some adventuring, then some kind of The Brothel Incident happens, during which she enchants whatever clothes she had at hand for defence, then the party runs from city. After some time she decides to settle down for a bit, recieves a letter from some (somewhat adventurous) noblewoman (who remembers aforementioned incident and suggests that there can be a lucrative market for discreet defence in aforementioned city) with offer of patronage, and returns to the city to open up a workshop and create enchanted garments for nobles and other well-off people. And she still do not talk with her family (that also heard about the incident and her involvement) and get some slightly incendiary jokes from fellow adventurers.
    Right. If you have money and they have resources and methods - why not. But it is certainly not going to be
    Well, this is argument against poor design of controls, not against presence/absence of verisimilitude.
    Well, sure, but I should remind, that forums are made for debates. It is literally their original purpose =)

    On a more abstract level: what game can and cannot get away with depends on two main factors. Those are genre and setting. Regarding genre: if game is going to be out and out comedy - it can do whatever its creators consider to be funny. But I think that with Carnal Souls this is not the case. Regarding setting: interestingly, such games tend to neatly fill categories depending on state of social order:
    1) We have games set "after the end", where social order crumbled altogether (like Corruption of Champions and Flexible Survival).
    2) We have games set "before the end", where social order is alive and influences everything in setting (like Fall of Eden).
    3) We have games set "on the frontier", where social order is not present on vast parts of setting (like Trials in Tainted Space).
    In first case everything goes: available resources are the only limit on what can be done.
    In second case everything must be in correct position relative to existing social order: citizens are expected to confirm, outsiders are allowed to diverge, but even they are limited in their divergence, since they are usually raised within that very same social order.
    Third case is kind of mix between the first two: out in the frontier you can do whatever you have enough power to do, but in civilized lands you are expected to confirm.
    The real question then is: "What is the state of social order in Carnal Souls setting?"
     
  11. Patrick R. Key

    Patrick R. Key Active Member Member

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    "A huge suit of plate armour would make it very difficult to appear sexy and seductive. A chainmail bikini would offer far less protection, but it would allow you to stop your enemy in their tracks, and maybe make them reconsider fighting you altogether. In Carnal Souls, skimpy armour has a real and definite usefulness, rather than simply being daft eyecandy."

    For individuals who lack immediate combat strength, revealing attire is the more logical choice to avoid being slashed, burned, etc. If you are a lowly bandit, archmage Mezzalt is going to kill you in spite of having the best armour. Choose to wear revealing clothes, and he'll willingly give you all of his coin w/o a fight that you could never possibly win.
     
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  12. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    Nope. And here is why:
    If you are a lowly bandit - maybe, just maybe you should not mess with archmages?
    Or not. Maybe you are not his type. Or his preferred gender. Or maybe he is secretly a lich and do not care about such activities at all. Or maybe wolves will devour you long before you would be able to make any contact with Mezzalt. Or maybe he is not at all willing to give away his money to strangers regardless of their attire.
    If you are going against magic-user, first and main advice - don't. If you are going to do this anyway - load up with all kinds of anti-magic arsenal. Seduction is never a reliable tactic. Trying to maliciously seduce someone who can blast you out of existence is downright suicidal.
    Easier said than [logically] done ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Skimpy armour is oxymoron. If it is skimpy - it is no longer armour, it is thematic dress, which is useless as means of defence.
     
  13. Patrick R. Key

    Patrick R. Key Active Member Member

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    False
     
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  14. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    Provide counterexample then.
     
  15. BlakLite

    BlakLite Member Member

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    Go back and read Benji's Feature Feature again. He's made it evident that seduction can and will be a viable tactic in Carnal Souls.
     
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  16. Nechrom

    Nechrom Well-Known Member Member

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    You're very correct and up to this point we haven't gotten a lot of context for the world of Carnal Souls.
    But reading the early version of the codex that Benji posted gives us a lot of answers, and I would say an answer to what you posited.

    While not an "out and out comedy" it definitely seems to take a more jovial approach to "text-based sexy adventure", which gives it a certain amount of leeway when it comes to earth-based logic. As for the social order, I think we're looking at a fairly new or at least recently shaken up global society with lots of different facets keeping things uncertain and creating a fairly chaotic world by our standards. But on the other hand being home to people and other beings who are pretty used to this and just try to live their lives despite everything that is happening.
     
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  17. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    You do realise the difference between "viable" and "reliable", don't you?
    Jovial in narrative - yes. But not so in content. If horse falls - it falls for a reason, not simply for comedy. And this has appropriate consequences. This I approve.
    It is still not "each one for himself" level of chaos, where everything goes.
    And this results in rather conforming societies with cultural inertia, not in bunch of vagabonds with "I do whatever I please" mentality.
     
  18. Nechrom

    Nechrom Well-Known Member Member

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    I don't quite agree here.
    From what I read there are quite a lot of light hearted content put in to fuel the at times whimsical tone of the story. It's definitely in a grey area for sure, not pure comedy slapstick and not gritty realism.
    You are right that the world doesn't shy away from punishing stupid behaviour. But that's also very much part of the humorous tone.

    No, but the level of uncertainty gives room for a lot of unknowns.
    Just the fact that the world at one point simply had to accept that there are now "animal people" living in what pretty quickly grew into working societies. That indicates that the world for the most part is pretty open to new and strange things.

    Absolutely, but we have only read about two of the settled societies so far. Some conforming societies might not have much internal tolerance for deviant behaviour. But due to the nature of the world they wouldn't really know what to expect of outsiders and have to be pretty open to all manner of customs, attitudes and behaviour coming from outside, unless of course they want to completely close themselves off from the world.
    I don't think most of these people had the luxury of completely cutting ties with the rest of the world like that. No doubt there are some variation of that kind of society in there somewhere, which we'll probably find out as the codex grows.
     
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  19. Passerby

    Passerby Well-Known Member Member

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    "Whimsical" does not preclude gritty realism. Let us look towards Pratchett for example. His books about city of Ankh-Morpork have plenty of comedy, but also lots of social satire and philosophical questions (the nature and effects of Vetinari job security, for example).
    To new and strange things that are as far from them as sub-humanly possible. Much like in Real Life Medieval ages: "There are cynocephals somewhere over there? Okay, sure, whatever. As long as they stay there - we have no problem with them." In fact, I expect all kind of social grievances from lapines immigrating into human city.
    Well, yes, but in form of "keep your distance and state your business". On more basic level ignorance breeds rejection, not acceptance.
    Most societies do not have this luxury. Most persons within those societies, however, are perfectly capable of not having any tie with someone of different species. Traders are those who need those ties. But common farmer, or craftsperson, or even noble can live his whole life without ever setting foot in any settlement other than the one he or she was born in.
     
  20. BlakLite

    BlakLite Member Member

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    Let's not make assumptions about the kind of direction that the story will take. What we currently know about the setting doesn't necessarily tell us what the game's overall tone will be, if it'll even be fair to say that it has one. Narrative tone is free to vary from scene to scene, depending on the behavior of the characters involved. Although the setting certainly does contribute to the context of any given scene and thus has an influence on its tone, how the scene's characters act within that context is what really shapes the tone. Since we know very little about the characters that will be involved, we don't have sufficient evidence upon which to conclude what does or doesn't make sense in this game's context.
     
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